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Post by Queen of Mean (Inactive) on Sept 6, 2016 17:16:05 GMT 1
Are you for serious?! In case trans would = drag, Dona would have a point. I know Dana International was sent to ESC just because she was assigned male at birth, and not for any other reason. Dona thinks they're sent as a gimmick, and is absolutely right. Rise Like A Phoenix would obviously flop in the semis if Tom Neuwirth would sing it out of character. And MaRtIn 's "unpopular" way of seeing drag queens is correct in my opinion. You don't need to be politically correct 100% of the time, people. Acknowledge the fact that both transgender, transsexuals and drag queens are gimmicks, and are sent to get points. However, the entry is fine, and was probably sent due to liking the song, or hoping it would do well regardless of her gender. That is right, but the thing that confused me with Dona post was the fact that he worried about why MaRtIn send a drag queen to a internet contest. Yes, Dana International and Conchita Wurst were probably sent because of the media outlet and the big potential to win, BUT THIS IS A FREAKING ONLINE CONTEST!!!! No one here will say to themselves "Let me find an entry that sparks political or medial discussions/outrage so that I can hopefully win this contest." These contests are in some matters worthless because there is no prize money or something. These are just for fun purposes. I really don't see any concern with someone sending a drag queen/trans individual/etc. to these kinds of contests. No one will hang you for sending them and neither will someone hang you for NOT sending them. And where did Martin have a "unpopular" way of seeing drag queens?! The first person to bring up the fact that Manila Luzon is a drag queen and that this is some sort of a political theme was Dona when he said that he hoped that Martin didn't bring her in just for "bonus points and to be politically correct". Martin never said that. He just said, that he breaks new ground with this entry because Manila is the first Drag Queen in USAVision Song Contest. I've sent a gay man last edition and no one made a big deal out of it, so why would you make a big deal out of Martin sending a Drag Queen. It's not like that he intended to send a bird or something like that.
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Tufkai
6 points
he/it
6,005
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Post by Tufkai on Sept 6, 2016 21:41:43 GMT 1
We'll just have to wait and see how well does. I'll try and get the recap done ASAP
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2,029
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Post by Queen of Mean (Inactive) on Sept 7, 2016 1:00:00 GMT 1
That is right, but the thing that confused me with Dona post was the fact that he worried about why MaRtIn send a drag queen to a internet contest. Yes, Dana International and Conchita Wurst were probably sent because of the media outlet and the big potential to win, BUT THIS IS A FREAKING ONLINE CONTEST!!!! No one here will say to themselves "Let me find an entry that sparks political or medial discussions/outrage so that I can hopefully win this contest." These contests are in some matters worthless because there is no prize money or something. These are just for fun purposes. I really don't see any concern with someone sending a drag queen/trans individual/etc. to these kinds of contests. No one will hang you for sending them and neither will someone hang you for NOT sending them. And where did Martin have a "unpopular" way of seeing drag queens?! The first person to bring up the fact that Manila Luzon is a drag queen and that this is some sort of a political theme was Dona when he said that he hoped that Martin didn't bring her in just for "bonus points and to be politically correct". Martin never said that. He just said, that he breaks new ground with this entry because Manila is the first Drag Queen in USAVision Song Contest. I've sent a gay man last edition and no one made a big deal out of it, so why would you make a big deal out of Martin sending a Drag Queen. It's not like that he intended to send a bird or something like that. There have have been times when trans usually won for simply being trans on online contests, such as when Conchita won NVSC with "Heroes". I was just saying, I hoped he choose "Ovahness" for genuinely liking it. Sometimes I believe people choose to send them to give a Transgender a "opportunity" even though they are given extra time/attention. Sometimes they are trans for attention, not because they want be a woman/man, especially the ones that are all in your face about it, IF YOU WANNA BE A WOMAN, STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR COMING OUT/MALE LIFE!. TO BE CLEAR, I have nothing against LGBT! I may be risking my SC forums career for saying this, and I think I helped New York, by bringing up this topic. Congratulations, you made me speechless (another first in this contest[and my life]). This is so much nonsense piled up in one place that I don't even know what to say to this. Just let me give you a tip. Repeating over and over that you "have nothing against LGBT" won't cover the fact that you DO have some issues with the LGBT+Community. You can't say I have nothing against [insert group of people here] and than start ranting about these exact people!!! This is not how the world works darling!
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Post by Jan on Sept 7, 2016 1:21:55 GMT 1
such as when Conchita won NVSC with "Heroes" I'm sorry, I don't wanna get involved in something that's pretty much none of my business but a) when did the thing I quoted happen? Have I missed something? b) I'm sure no drag queen does drag for attention, but simply because they want to and they can. c) I think before this discussion continues, you should better do some research about LGBTQ+ on the internet because to me it seems like you are confused and unaware about a lot of stuff edit 1: d) Plus, everyone is allowed to send to an online contest whatever they want, as long as the entry itself respects the rules. So there was nothing wrong. edit 2: actually I take some of my words back, it kind of is some of my business coffadmincoff edit 3: Because I don't want to make a new post. Yes, some of these remarks were unnecessary, TOTALLY taken out of context, mostly even false and pretty homophobic. If you start a sentence with "I don't have anything against the LGBT community" there ain't no "but".
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Post by Jan on Sept 7, 2016 2:16:25 GMT 1
I'm sorry, I don't wanna get involved in something that's pretty much none of my business but a) when did the thing I quoted happen? Have I missed something? b) I'm sure no drag queen does drag for attention, but simply because they want to and they can. c) I think before this discussion continues, you should better do some research about LGBTQ+ on the internet because to me it seems like you are confused and unaware about a lot of stuff edit 1: d) Plus, everyone is allowed to send to an online contest whatever they want, as long as the entry itself respects the rules. So there was nothing wrong. edit 2: actually I take some of my words back, it kind of is some of my business coffadmincoff Kaitlyn Jenner for example, a famous transgender in the US. She said it was easier to come out trans than to come out conservative. The media covered the gender switch for days, but when she endorsed Ted Cruz, liberals didn't know how to feel. When people change genders, they get attention. That you cannot deny. So some people who are lonely, take advantage of the LGBT community, to get more attention. Not all, some. Btw I know that you can send whatever you want. I know a few LGBT so I think I know enough to be able to have this conversation. So by me not supporting some LGBT, I guess I'm a bigot. For example, you say you like fruit, but not all fruit (that was corny), I won't assume you hate all fruit. Ok, I didn't plan to make a big deal out if this conversaion buuuut.... I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE OMFG. 1) You are complaining about a drag queen and then bringing up arguments about transsexual people. THERE IS NO CONNECTION. can you like do some research 2) "When people change genders, they get attention." IT IS NOT THE TRANS' PEOPLE FAULT IF THE MEDIA GIVES THAT MUCH ATTENTION. It is the media that makes such a big deal out of it. Why? Because in our society "it's not normal" or "different" and you and your subjective comments just prove it. 3) "take advantage of the LGBT community" - did you just really Do you think it is easy to change a gender and then you even PROFIT by it? what the fuck is this thinking, I don't understand, explain to me... Why would someone likely struggle with their sexuality for a long time (in case of Caitlyn Jenner even for d e c a d e s) and then decide to change their LIFE to finally BE who they actually ARE just for attention? ... that makes like no sense? 4) "I know a few LGBT so I think I know enough to be able to have this conversation." Well you proved the opposite (especially considering my first point but also many others). My dad knows gay people but still does not know anything about LGBT, so your point is pretty irrelevant anyway. 5) "So by me not supporting some LGBT, I guess I'm a bigot." Basically yes. To me it seems you are not LGBT. But I am. And I can tell you, your comments are obviously homophobic, as you are discriminating "a part of LGBT". It's as if feminists would say, they support white women, but not black women. 6) "you say you like fruit, but not all fruit (that was corny), I won't assume you hate all fruit." WOW, so you're comparing humans with fruits, nice job. But you just proved the fact that your comments were homophobic. If I may translate your comparison: "you say you like LGBT, but not all LGBT, I won't assume you hate all LGBT" which means you do have something against certains parts of LGBT, which is basically discrimination and proving all my above points. Sorry, but think about it. Edit: I'm not convincing you to support all and in no way saying that only if you're supporting LGBT, you're not homophobic. But you made it clear that you do not respect or approve of the way a specific group of people are living their life based on pretty nonsense arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 5:54:14 GMT 1
At some point Dona actually made a point. Wow. Now Jan simply represents the justice and makes things right.
And, um, Heroes came 10th :/
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Post by MaRtIn on Sept 7, 2016 7:32:16 GMT 1
I think the discussion of the topic 1-2 pages ago can continue to another, more relevant thread. >_> Minor correction to Queen of Mean (Inactive): I didn't send Manila for New York. I'm the player for Colorado. Tufkai Where's that recap?
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2,029
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Bitches better beware
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Post by Queen of Mean (Inactive) on Sept 7, 2016 11:08:00 GMT 1
I think the discussion of the topic 1-2 pages ago can continue to another, more relevant thread. >_> Minor correction to Queen of Mean (Inactive) : I didn't send Manila for New York. I'm the player for Colorado. Tufkai Where's that recap? Oh, I slipped on that fact apparently. Jan Thank You! I wasn't sure how to deal with so much nonsense.
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Tufkai
6 points
he/it
6,005
12,018
There's something in the atmosphere
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Post by Tufkai on Sept 7, 2016 17:06:24 GMT 1
You know you've f***ed up when Jan gets involved I'm sorry for taking so long. I went back to school last week and a lot has been happening. I'll try and do it tonight.
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Post by Black Butterfly on Sept 7, 2016 17:24:54 GMT 1
All of this drama because of Manila Luzon, lmao btw you reference drag queens as she when referring to their drag persona
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