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Post by fabbi on Apr 22, 2019 9:30:00 GMT 1
The voting definitely won't be that exciting imo. Anyway, at least we got from both Italy and the Netherlands.
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Post by Anesović on Apr 23, 2019 12:10:26 GMT 1
(23/44) (24/44) (25/44) (26/44)
Votes from OGAE Australia, OGAE Cyprus, OGAE Czech Republic, & OGAE Finland
| Australia | Cyprus | Czech Republic | Finland |
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| | Italy | Switzerland | Switzerland | Norway | | Netherlands | Greece | Netherlands | Switzerland | | Iceland | Netherlands | Italy | Italy | | Norway | Italy | Norway | Iceland | | Switzerland | Russia | Malta | Netherlands | | Sweden | Spain | Cyprus | Sweden | | Azerbaijan | Sweden | Spain | Russia | | Cyprus | Azerbaijan | Russia | San Marino | | Russia | Malta | Azerbaijan | Cyprus | | Portugal | Norway | Sweden | Azerbaijan |
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Post by Julian on Apr 23, 2019 12:52:06 GMT 1
The juries are (...) sometimes even more corrupt than the televoters
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Post by mimisthesc on Apr 23, 2019 14:26:41 GMT 1
The juries are (...) sometimes even more corrupt than the televoters Not sure what you're referring to exactly but I assume it's the 'sometimes' part. That is mainly because not all juries are corrupt (or at least they hide it too well) if you ask me. However being totally unbiased is just impossible, even if it's 100% televoting or the current system or whatsoever.
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Post by Julian on Apr 23, 2019 14:35:54 GMT 1
Not sure what you're referring to exactly but I assume it's the 'sometimes' part. That is mainly because not all juries are corrupt (or at least they hide it too well) if you ask me. However being totally unbiased is just impossible, even if it's 100% televoting or the current system or whatsoever. So you think the results are a result of corruption if I understand you correctly?
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Post by mimisthesc on Apr 23, 2019 14:52:22 GMT 1
Not sure what you're referring to exactly but I assume it's the 'sometimes' part. That is mainly because not all juries are corrupt (or at least they hide it too well) if you ask me. However being totally unbiased is just impossible, even if it's 100% televoting or the current system or whatsoever. So you think the results are a result of corruption if I understand you correctly? I'm saying that the results are affected a lot by things that should not have an impact when it comes to voting. For some countries it might have to do with politics or countries supporting or not supporting others because of historical events or because of cultural similarities etc., for some others it might be something else (not going to mention what, it could be literally anything irrelevant to the contest at the end of the day ). Obviously the thing is that the juries and the public will never agree completely but it is funny how just a few people from each country decide 50% of the country's votes because it's impossible to be fully objective. I'm not referring to the winners not being worth their victory or whatsoever, but I guess some countries would have been in different positions, had the voting been fully objective from some of the juries.
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Post by Julian on Apr 23, 2019 15:00:27 GMT 1
So you think the results are a result of corruption if I understand you correctly? I'm saying that the results are affected a lot by things that should not have an impact when it comes to voting. For some countries it might have to do with politics or countries supporting or not supporting others because of historical events or because of cultural similarities etc., for some others it might be something else (not going to mention what, it could be literally anything irrelevant to the contest at the end of the day ). Obviously the thing is that the juries and the public will never agree completely but it is funny how just a few people from each country decide 50% of the country's votes because it's impossible to be fully objective. I'm not referring to the winners not being worth their victory or whatsoever, but I guess some countries would have been in different positions, had the voting been fully objective from some of the juries. Okay I wasn't sure whether you were talking about full-blown corruption in the sense of jurors being paid to vote a certain way or just personal biases towards certain countries. The first would've been a bold claim but I sort of agree with the latter. However, I do think that personal biases aren't that relevant in the big picture and with so many countries I think the effects of those biases are rather small and get balanced out but obviously there are some ridiculous cases ( Armenia and Azerbaijan for example)
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Post by mimisthesc on Apr 23, 2019 15:13:13 GMT 1
I'm saying that the results are affected a lot by things that should not have an impact when it comes to voting. For some countries it might have to do with politics or countries supporting or not supporting others because of historical events or because of cultural similarities etc., for some others it might be something else (not going to mention what, it could be literally anything irrelevant to the contest at the end of the day ). Obviously the thing is that the juries and the public will never agree completely but it is funny how just a few people from each country decide 50% of the country's votes because it's impossible to be fully objective. I'm not referring to the winners not being worth their victory or whatsoever, but I guess some countries would have been in different positions, had the voting been fully objective from some of the juries. Okay I wasn't sure whether you were talking about full-blown corruption in the sense of jurors being paid to vote a certain way or just personal biases towards certain countries. The first would've been a bold claim but I sort of agree with the latter. However, I do think that personal biases aren't that relevant in the big picture and with so many countries I think the effects of those biases are rather small and get balanced out but obviously there are some ridiculous cases ( Armenia and Azerbaijan for example) Well probably the way I expressed myself didn't really make clear what I actually meant Reading this again now makes me realize that it could also sound different Obviously I was not referring to jurors being paid or so, I guess that would be a really extreme case (which will hopefully never turn out to be true), but the example of Armenia and Azerbaijan ranking each other dead last in the semi or in the final (or in both occasions) is exactly one of the things I had in mind when writing the post. Now as for the whether those biases affect the results, I can clearly not say that but I guess they still do, even if that is not in a big scale, but as long as it is not something 'extreme' (e.g. imagine Armenia losing the victory by, say just 2 points, to some other country and Azerbaijan having given them 0 just because all their jurors ranked them last... Then everyone would actually get to see the effect using this example as we referred to those countries before) then it is probably not of a big significance either.
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Post by Mordecai on Apr 23, 2019 16:05:42 GMT 1
ok I wouldn’t go as far as saying juries are corrupt but you can’t tell me that there isn’t some sort of nepotism and backstage politics that exist... it’s not a coincidence that countries like Australia and Malta seem to consistently score well with the jury, especially when there are some entries that do not warrant such jury favourability. I guess the real test this year will be Australia’s entry since popera songs are jury poison
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Post by mimisthesc on Apr 23, 2019 17:37:03 GMT 1
it’s not a coincidence that countries like Australia and Malta seem to consistently score well with the jury, especially when there are some entries that do not warrant such jury favourability. I'd personally add Sweden as well (last year's gap between the televoting and jury results being an example).
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