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Post by mimisthesc on Sept 6, 2020 22:04:11 GMT 1
I mentioned it at the results show as well but here is a rather interesting graph I produced today.  It shows the distribution of the final placing of the entries appearing right before or right after the winning entry in the final recap. For example, the first bar says that there has only been 1 edition in which the country appearing right after the winner of that edition in the final recap finished in 2nd place, whereas we've had 6 occasions in which the country appearing right before the winner in the final recap came 2nd etc. Interestingly enough, this edition marked the first time ever that the runner-up appeared right after the winner of the edition and it's even more interesting that  Ireland,  Philippines and  Belgium (ie. the TOP 3 of the 84th edition) actually appeared in that exact order, right next to each other in the recap  |
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Post by fabbi on Feb 3, 2021 23:29:08 GMT 1
Hi @everyone
Here's a situation that there's a song by an absolute newcomer that I'd like to submit for #91. However there also happens to be only 1 image of the artist available which is definitely not for further uses here (turquoise theme with black shade ...). So how do we usually handle that here - except for not submitting it at all?
I know it's the rules (and rules need go be accepted or goodbye), but I absolutely refuse to accept this to be an actual reason for some songs to be not available as possible entries (or maybe that's the already frustrated me speaking lol).
I really don't want to start some drama with this, but we (to my knowledge) never actually had an open discussion about that matter although I believe everybody knows what I mean.
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Post by mimisthesc on Feb 4, 2021 8:15:51 GMT 1
Hi @everyone Here's a situation that there's a song by an absolute newcomer that I'd like to submit for #91. However there also happens to be only 1 image of the artist available which is definitely not for further uses here (turquoise theme with black shade ...). So how do we usually handle that here - except for not submitting it at all? I know it's the rules (and rules need go be accepted or goodbye), but I absolutely refuse to accept this to be an actual reason for some songs to be not available as possible entries (or maybe that's the already frustrated me speaking lol). I really don't want to start some drama with this, but we (to my knowledge) never actually had an open discussion about that matter although I believe everybody knows what I mean. We never had an open discussion about it because personally I don't think it's something people think of before submitting an entry, nor something that prevents them from sending specific artists. Fortunately, technology can do much more than we could've imagined some years ago so image editing has also reached a whole new level.  Slovakia this edition sent a band with only photos in black and white - fortunately there exist machine learning algorithms that can convert a grayscale image to RGB (although not necessarily being 100% successful but still doing a decent first job that I could then continue working on). Moreover, there have been a few times when no 'full' image of an artist was available online and I had to literally 'draw' the cropped part (usually this happens with artist hands being cropped from images). If nobody has ever noticed that, then I guess that means I've done a good job Regarding the artist you want to send, I wouldn't even be worried because by the time #91 begins, they might've uploaded more photos. Moreover, literally every single edition, there will be at least 1 player to suggest me an image I cannot work on (either because of having a filter applied on it or because of being cropped etc) and sometimes people even claim that's the only photo available online. However, it seems like whenever I search for photos of that artist online, many decent ones 'magically' appear...  I don't think you're starting drama from this but imo it's a rather pointless discussion to have. You even mentioned the rules in your post - I am pretty sure there is nothing written there that explicitly states that an entry is refused if the artist has no (good) photos available online. Anyway, I have personally never heard from anyone that they'd wanted to submit an entry and eventually did not due to the lack of artist images online. Anyway if there is really no image online or anything, the black hoodie man used for the  Australian image in #67 (and not only) can be reused at any time.  |
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Post by fabbi on Feb 4, 2021 22:13:23 GMT 1
Hi @everyone Here's a situation that there's a song by an absolute newcomer that I'd like to submit for #91. However there also happens to be only 1 image of the artist available which is definitely not for further uses here (turquoise theme with black shade ...). So how do we usually handle that here - except for not submitting it at all? I know it's the rules (and rules need go be accepted or goodbye), but I absolutely refuse to accept this to be an actual reason for some songs to be not available as possible entries (or maybe that's the already frustrated me speaking lol). I really don't want to start some drama with this, but we (to my knowledge) never actually had an open discussion about that matter although I believe everybody knows what I mean. We never had an open discussion about it because personally I don't think it's something people think of before submitting an entry, nor something that prevents them for sending specific artists. Fortunately, technology can do much more than we could've imagined some years ago so image editing has also reached a whole new level. Slovakia this edition sent a band with only photos in black and white - fortunately there exist machine learning algorithms that can convert a grayscale image to RGB (although not necessarily being 100% successful but still doing a decent first job that I could then continue working on). Moreover, there have been a few times when no 'full' image of an artist was available online and I had to literally 'draw' the cropped part (usually this happens with artist hands being cropped from images). If nobody has ever noticed that, then I guess that means I've done a good job Regarding the artist you want to send, I wouldn't even be worried because by the time #91 begins, they might've uploaded more photos. Moreover, literally every single edition, there will be at least 1 player to suggest me an image I cannot work on (either because of having a filter applied on it or because of being cropped etc) and sometimes people even claim that's the only photo available online. However, it seems like whenever I search for photos of that artist online, many decent ones 'magically' appear... I don't think you're starting drama from this but imo it's a rather pointless discussion to have. You even mentioned the rules in your post - I am pretty sure there is nothing written there that explicitly states that an entry is refused if the artist has no (good) photos available online. Anyway, I have personally never heard from anyone that they'd wanted to submit an entry and eventually did not due to the lack of artist images online. Anyway if there is really no image online or anything, the black hoodie man used for the Australian image in #67 (and not only) can be reused at any time. Oh thanks for your quick answer.  Tbh. the third paragraph is exactly what I'm hoping for. And omg yeah  #67. I totally forgot about that (and had to check it out lol).  |
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Post by fabbi on Apr 29, 2021 7:38:52 GMT 1
After the participations of Blinding lights and Let me love you for  Ethiopia and  Algeria respectively that cause quite some controversy (is that the right word?) especially on the Discord server I would like to ask for an adaption of the rules for artists for the new decade: My idea us that famous artists are still accepted to be borrowed - not recommended obvsly - but only with unkown songs. The definition of "famous artist" could maybe be like: "An artist that we know also without these contests" - since the status of fame varies from one country to the others. I came up with the idea of this since the 2 mentioned cases weren't the first times this happened plus it'd restrict both unoriginality (don't think there's an essential problem with borrowing itself) and the respective dramas (that I guess we all don't want?). And idk about anyone else, but I'm absolutely not into the possibility of e. g. "Turn down for what" in #92, "Cold Water" #94, "Lean on" #96 etc. Sorry to the Algerian player for using him as example, but looking at what he's done so far I can unfortunately see that actually happening ... Also sorry if this post was too long and a mess lol but I hope you understand what I mean and thanks for the attention ... |
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Post by mimisthesc on Apr 29, 2021 8:47:17 GMT 1
After the participations of Blinding lights and Let me love you for Ethiopia and Algeria respectively that cause quite some controversy (is that the right word?) especially on the Discord server I would like to ask for an adaption of the rules for artists for the new decade: My idea us that famous artists are still accepted to be borrowed - not recommended obvsly - but only with unkown songs. The definition of "famous artist" could maybe be like: "An artist that we know also without these contests" - since the status of fame varies from one country to the others. I came up with the idea of this since the 2 mentioned cases weren't the first times this happened plus it'd restrict both unoriginality (don't think there's an essential problem with borrowing itself) and the respective dramas (that I guess we all don't want?). And idk about anyone else, but I'm absolutely not into the possibility of e. g. "Turn down for what" in #92, "Cold Water" #94, "Lean on" #96 etc. Sorry to the Algerian player for using him as example, but looking at what he's done so far I can unfortunately see that actually happening ... Also sorry if this post was too long and a mess lol but I hope you understand what I mean and thanks for the attention ... Since neither  Florian nor I are on Discord, I do not really know what you are referring to personally. Your idea is not bad but it sounds very 'vague'. What makes a song "unknown"? Your definition of "famous artist" is also not entirely clear, nor the same for everyone, especially for people who might be only in our contest and not anywhere else. In any case, I do agree with you that these songs/entries really have nothing to offer in the contest and we have already thought of setting a small kind of 'restriction' when it comes to such entries (this should be implemented from #91 on) but at the same time, I don't think this will solve the whole problem. The problem will persist as long as people keep on supporting these entries. Algeria flopped in #90 indeed, but Ethiopia managed to qualify and you were even one of the people that gave it  in the semi final and  in the final. Sure, you can vote for it if you like it, but then I don't see why you or/and other people are complaining about these entries, as apparently you support them. |
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Post by fabbi on May 6, 2021 20:24:23 GMT 1
First off, sorry to Mimis for the late reaction, I somehow just haven't realized that there's been an answer to my post from a week ago ... Since neither Florian nor I are on Discord, I do not really know what you are referring to personally. Your idea is not bad but it sounds very 'vague'. What makes a song "unknown"? Your definition of "famous artist" is also not entirely clear, nor the same for everyone, especially for people who might be only in our contest and not anywhere else. I think we're talking at cross purposes (?) there. I meant just something like "artists that are mentioned on the radio more or less regular." But yeah just like you wrote it's not the same for everyone and needs to be discussed further. Btw. I'm sorry for the definition given, but I was on the bus and didn't have a lot of time left to think about something else. And unfortunately I can't really say anything about what's discussed in the Discord server (because it's a lot) ... Also imo that should probably better be done with screenshots that I don't have. In any case, I do agree with you that these songs/entries really have nothing to offer in the contest and we have already thought of setting a small kind of 'restriction' when it comes to such entries (this should be implemented from #91 on) but at the same time, I don't think this will solve the whole problem. Totally looking forward to this in that case.   And although I don't know what you're planning to do - no offense here - there's probably no way how to get rid of famous songs in contests. I mean people have discussed that publicly for years now. There'll always be the people who will somehow manage to find a way ... The problem will persist as long as people keep on supporting these entries. Algeria flopped in #90 indeed, but Ethiopia managed to qualify and you were even one of the people that gave it in the semi final and in the final. Sure, you can vote for it if you like it, but then I don't see why you or/and other people are complaining about these entries, as apparently you support them. I plead guilty. Just kidding, but yeah I'm 100 % with you on this part. Particularly the hypocrisy I can see being secretly mentioned at the end! I was actually thinking about  -ing Ethiopia right there, but at the same couldn't resist doing that to an all-time favourite song of mine ... |
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WWW Song Contest Manager
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Post by mimisthesc on May 6, 2021 21:09:16 GMT 1
In any case, I do agree with you that these songs/entries really have nothing to offer in the contest and we have already thought of setting a small kind of 'restriction' when it comes to such entries (this should be implemented from #91 on) but at the same time, I don't think this will solve the whole problem. Totally looking forward to this in that case. And although I don't know what you're planning to do - no offense here - there's probably no way how to get rid of famous songs in contests. I mean people have discussed that publicly for years now. There'll always be the people who will somehow manage to find a way ... Exactly, therefore the 'restriction' we will set is in a way 'pointless' as it still allows famous songs take part. In fact, it is just a restriction that will affect people from going for worldwide hits but songs that are in literally every other online song contest or songs from National Finals of ESC will remain eligible (or at least the big majority of those). There is really nothing that can be done unless additional measures are taken, such as not allowing songs that competed in ESC National Selections or not allowing songs that have taken part in up to a specific number of other contests but it is just too much additional work that I am personally unwilling to do - already a normal edition takes up a significant amount of time. |
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Post by Þórir on May 25, 2021 12:58:26 GMT 1
So apparently the  Croatian and Ethiopian HoDs have been exposed of being Vaneedas alts and banned along with him... |
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Post by ferrygraf on May 25, 2021 16:38:22 GMT 1
So apparently the Croatian and Ethiopian HoDs have been exposed of being Vaneedas alts and banned along with him... Yes, a moderator informed us about it |
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