|
Post by AussieSwarm on Feb 26, 2019 0:42:02 GMT 1
This might as well be they entry it really describes how Ukraine feels right now
|
|
Ste
3 points
577
3,136
Instead I wrote a song
|
Post by Ste on Feb 26, 2019 2:48:25 GMT 1
Can we all fly to Ukraine and personally kick their vice president entire broadcasting team in the balls asap. Not to be dramatic but I'm going into hiding until 2020 thanks x
|
|
|
Post by nijat on Feb 26, 2019 17:05:28 GMT 1
Forgive me for writing about Ukraine from Russia. This is uncomfortable for me, but I want to speak. What they did during their selection is nonsense. They said, their politicians said, that the representative of the country should not have connections with Russia (concerts, relatives). The problem is that ALL the finalists have connections with Russia. Someone gave concerts in Moscow, someone has a russian passport, someone even has awards. In my country, no one would have paid attention to this, also same for the other european countries. But in today's Ukraine it has become a black mark. And the Jamala's question "Crimea is Ukraine?". What is this? What does it mean for a song contest?For your information, she’s parents now live in the Crimea, have russian passports, and she performed in 2015 (after the ukrainian “revolution”) in Russia, in Sochi. Here is an example of hypocritical "patriotism".According to rumors, Freedom Jazz will refuse to represent Ukraine. I can not believe so many people liked this comment. I completely agree with the statements in italic, to start with. Politicisation of the Vidbir National Selection is unacceptable, and unfair towards Maruv, who put so much effort into her performance and was liked by the overwhelming majority of the Eurovision audience. I also consider Jamala's question very disrespectful and unethical, who put Maruv into a very uncomfortable situation. As far as I know, many other contestants were also asked questions of a similar nature, which should also be condemned. However, there is another side of the coin (bolded statements) - Ukraine's unjustified restrictions towards Maruv should not justify Russia's portrayal as an innocent country. You say in your country no one would have paid attention to this, maybe because it is your country who created so many conflicts in the post-Soviet region (e.g. Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) and occupied territories, including in Ukraine, in order to achieve its neo-imperialist goals? Moreover, it is again Russia who regularly grants passports to the people of disputed territories of the region (including Crimea) in order to justify its military interventions (e.g. South Ossetia and Abkhazia) under the ground of "protecting its citizens". Thus, those people having Russian passports do not really mean anything, because in many cases, passportization (granting of passports) is conducted by the Russia against the will of the people of these territories. Maybe you could comment on that before criticizing them having Russian passports. Regarding the "revolution" as you have said, I'd recommend to enrich your knowledge by not only following state-controlled media and resources constructing knowledge to serve the interests of power authorities Thus, while you criticize Ukrainians for having hypocrital patriotism, one could easily see that you do the same thing. Nationalism would be one of the last things I would support. I believe a human-centric approach is the solution to the problems of today, not nation-based, race-based, or any collective-based approaches. I can understand that Maruv's non-participation disappointed a lot of people, including me, who did not even really liked the song. However, when criticizing the politicisation of the National Selection, you should not depict Russia as if it did not cause all the casualties in the region. A song contest could be important for you ("you" in plural), but it is not more valuable than human lives.
|
|
|
Post by ROBERT 💙 on Feb 26, 2019 17:20:37 GMT 1
Just in general, the whole thing is a shamble what happened and under no circumstances should a perfomer be questioned on the basis of that question having absolutely nothing to do with their song. The only questions Jamala should have asked are such as -
- "What is the theme to your song and the message it's portraying?"
- "Do you have a vision of how you could perform this to a certain magnitude to such a wide audience?"
- "What singers inspire you and help you do this?"
Not questions about if someone has connections to another country.
We all know that its pretty scientific facts that not every single human in the world is 100% where they come from because your DNA will trace back to where ancestors came from.
As for the fact that she's rejected the contract, I'm happy that she did because she shouldn't have been presented with such guidelines. It was a complete foul move by the Ukrainian broadcaster and they should be ashamed of what they've done.
It definitely was the wise move for her not to agree to their rules, because she wouldn't have been representing herself, she would have been representing politics as a puppet - and that is not right.
|
|
|
Post by renata on Feb 26, 2019 17:56:29 GMT 1
fuming.
|
|
|
Post by Aleks on Feb 26, 2019 18:31:42 GMT 1
I hope this is a joke
|
|
inactivo
Banned
they/them
4,654
8,387
Why can't you hold me in the street? Why can't I kiss you on the dance floor?
|
Post by inactivo on Feb 27, 2019 0:19:40 GMT 1
WAIT I MEAN, IS ACTUALLY UKRAINE NOT SENDING MARUV ? I MEAN
|
|
1,707
4,474
Are you happy now?
|
Post by Dmitry on Feb 27, 2019 11:19:49 GMT 1
I can not believe so many people liked this comment. I completely agree with the statements in italic, to start with. Politicisation of the Vidbir National Selection is unacceptable, and unfair towards Maruv, who put so much effort into her performance and was liked by the overwhelming majority of the Eurovision audience. I also consider Jamala's question very disrespectful and unethical, who put Maruv into a very uncomfortable situation. As far as I know, many other contestants were also asked questions of a similar nature, which should also be condemned. However, there is another side of the coin (bolded statements) - Ukraine's unjustified restrictions towards Maruv should not justify Russia's portrayal as an innocent country. You say in your country no one would have paid attention to this, maybe because it is your country who created so many conflicts in the post-Soviet region (e.g. Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) and occupied territories, including in Ukraine, in order to achieve its neo-imperialist goals? Moreover, it is again Russia who regularly grants passports to the people of disputed territories of the region (including Crimea) in order to justify its military interventions (e.g. South Ossetia and Abkhazia) under the ground of "protecting its citizens". Thus, those people having Russian passports do not really mean anything, because in many cases, passportization (granting of passports) is conducted by the Russia against the will of the people of these territories. Maybe you could comment on that before criticizing them having Russian passports. Regarding the "revolution" as you have said, I'd recommend to enrich your knowledge by not only following state-controlled media and resources constructing knowledge to serve the interests of power authorities Thus, while you criticize Ukrainians for having hypocrital patriotism, one could easily see that you do the same thing. Nationalism would be one of the last things I would support. I believe a human-centric approach is the solution to the problems of today, not nation-based, race-based, or any collective-based approaches. I can understand that Maruv's non-participation disappointed a lot of people, including me, who did not even really liked the song. However, when criticizing the politicisation of the National Selection, you should not depict Russia as if it did not cause all the casualties in the region. A song contest could be important for you ("you" in plural), but it is not more valuable than human lives. I always try not to get involved in political disputes. This is not a topic worth discussing here. But... If you want to see an aggressor in Russia, it is very sad. You are not looking at the situation from the outside, not neutral. Maybe you should also look at the materials that say the opposite things, be critical of the information? Are you talking about "aggression" in Moldova? Are you sure you're familiar with the history of this conflict? After the declaration of independence, Moldova decided to become part of Romania, but a part of the population disagreed with it and eventually it turned into an armed confrontation. Now there is peace thanks to the peacekeepers of Moldova, Transnistria and Russia. Where's the aggression? "Aggression" in Georgia? Is this the "russian aggression" when Georgian troops started shelling russian peacekeepers and the peaceful city of Tskhinval? And all this during the Olympics. Yes, this is very logical! 10/10 After the collapse of the Soviet Union there, as in other countries former USSR, were many ethnic conflicts. It is foolish to accuse us of that. "Aggression" in Armenia and Azerbaijan? What are you talking about? This is a conflict between the two countries. We want peace between them. And "aggression" in Ukraine, which Ukraine cannot prove. Not a single photo of russian troops in the east of the country, not a single proof. Just accusations. The Crimea? It is the choice of the people living there. Ukrainian bloggers filmed a video asking the crimean people whether they like to live in Russia and they were told - Yes. I do not know, maybe behind the scenes were the russian military with guns (sarcasm).
"Passportization", as you said, is not carried out by force. It's everyone's choice. In Russia, you can have more than 1 passport.
You accuse us of propaganda, even though you do it more than we do.
Again, this is NOT a political forum. I expressed my opinion about how badly Ukraine acted with its participants, put politics above music, forced participants to choose between creativity and political beliefs. I said that some of the jury behaved inappropriately and did what others are accused of. And Yes, I see the opposition materials. These are two sides of the one propaganda coin.
|
|
|
Post by nijat on Feb 27, 2019 13:39:59 GMT 1
I always try not to get involved in political disputes. This is not a topic worth discussing here. But... If you want to see an aggressor in Russia, it is very sad. You are not looking at the situation from the outside, not neutral. Maybe you should also look at the materials that say the opposite things, be critical of the information? Are you talking about "aggression" in Moldova? Are you sure you're familiar with the history of this conflict? After the declaration of independence, Moldova decided to become part of Romania, but a part of the population disagreed with it and eventually it turned into an armed confrontation. Now there is peace thanks to the peacekeepers of Moldova, Transnistria and Russia. Where's the aggression? "Aggression" in Georgia? Is this the "russian aggression" when Georgian troops started shelling russian peacekeepers and the peaceful city of Tskhinval? And all this during the Olympics. Yes, this is very logical! 10/10 After the collapse of the Soviet Union there, as in other countries former USSR, were many ethnic conflicts. It is foolish to accuse us of that. "Aggression" in Armenia and Azerbaijan? What are you talking about? This is a conflict between the two countries. We want peace between them. And "aggression" in Ukraine, which Ukraine cannot prove. Not a single photo of russian troops in the east of the country, not a single proof. Just accusations. The Crimea? It is the choice of the people living there. Ukrainian bloggers filmed a video asking the crimean people whether they like to live in Russia and they were told - Yes. I do not know, maybe behind the scenes were the russian military with guns (sarcasm).
"Passportization", as you said, is not carried out by force. It's everyone's choice. In Russia, you can have more than 1 passport.
You accuse us of propaganda, even though you do it more than we do.
Again, this is NOT a political forum. I expressed my opinion about how badly Ukraine acted with its participants, put politics above music, forced participants to choose between creativity and political beliefs. I said that some of the jury behaved inappropriately and did what others are accused of. And Yes, I see the opposition materials. These are two sides of the one propaganda coin. Thank you very much for the answer. I am a member of this forum for about 4 years and I have never been involved in any debates here. On the other hand, I do not hate neither Russia nor its citizens. However, I could not stay silent to your comment for several reasons. You are wrong in assuming that "aggression" only occurs as direct military interventions of one (or more) states over the territories of another. Cold War ended and today, "traditional" definition of "security threats" ceased to exist, rather they are constructed in mutliple forms in a variety of fields. My aim is not to showcase my knowledge on history, politics and law, but I think you miss to mention the "counter-arguments", and that creates an inappropriate image of the situation in our region. If administrates/moderators of the forum consider I violate the community standards of the Forum, then they are free to delete my comments. However, I would also like to administrates/moderators to take care of biased value judgements on sensitive topics, such as this one. The fault in your argument starts with the historical analysis of it - you analyze the context after these countries were granted independence in 1990s, yet you miss a very big picture established during the reign of Soviet Union, in particular, its policy of "territory swaps". Starting with Moldova - how was this conflict developed? In 1917,Moldovan nationalist movement in Bessarabia proclaimed independent Moldovan Republic and National Council voted for unification proposal with Romania. And as a counter-measure, Soviet Union ‘created’ Moldavian Autonomous SSR (modern Transnistria) in 1924 on the eastern bank of Nistru river within Ukrainian SSR. While during the Second World War, Soviet Union combined the modern territories of Transnistria to the rest of Moldova, it has always kept the area as a "conflict zone". And once again, while you are right about what happened about the desire of Moldovans to unite with Romania in 1990s, it was again Russia, to be precise, 14th army, which provided military assistance against Moldova. And that resulted in the loss of jurisdiction of Moldova over the Transnistria. And instead Russia has an extra-territorial jurisdiction over the territory today (check: Ilaşcu and Others v. Republic of Moldova and Russia; Ivanţoc and Others v. the Republic of Moldova and Russia and many more judgements of the ECtHR) Similarly, in case of other disputed territories they were also used as "conflict zones" during the control of Soviet Union and were backed by the military assistance of Russia in the 1990s. (I do not think listing them one by one is necessary here, but the similar stories happened to the one I explained above) I have been involved in many research projects on frozen conflicts (and passportization; not in Russia - in disputed territories), and also used quite many Russian sources (I know Russian); also in some cases had interviews with the people originating from disputed territories. Thus, it is ridiculous when I am accused of not being neutral, I would not be accepted to these projects otherwise as it would violate the standards of research ethics. I would not react to your comment had it only encompassed arguments on music. But when you acted upon your value judgements, and made a comparison between the people of Ukraine and Russia, you politicized the topic indirectly. Once again, I criticize what happened to Maruv, and hope Ukraine will withdraw from this year's contest, if you wanna know. But what I reacted to is something completely different. Yes, I see an aggressor in Russia. And I do not think we should blindly accept what our governments tend to do just because we are a member of the same nation; To exemplify, the government of my country is corrupt and systematically violates human rights - I can never support this kind of government, who takes into accounts its own interests rather than the interests of its citizens. If someone accused my country because of that, I'd definitely agree with that and not accuse someone of not being neutral. I will not comment on this topic anymore not to create a huge disagreement on the forum. While I am sad for Maruv's withdrawal, I believe I had to express my opinions on this particular topic. Thank you for your opinions
|
|
Anton
6 points
he/him
6,720
16,456
Я на даху ♪♫
|
Post by Anton on Feb 27, 2019 14:54:13 GMT 1
bruh
|
|